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We finally had our 3rd talk in 33 years, I’m guessing averaging 1 talk per 11 years probably isn’t good lol. Our first talk was when I triggered 2 years ago and our second talk was last February.
My history is on the "Been lurking for 2 years thread!" In this General Forum.
I told my wife I would like to talk about her affair and that I had some questions. She was agreeable so we sat down and talked for about an hour. Here are the questions I asked (not in any particular order) and her answers. I said I would post this on SI once we talked so here goes;

What did you tell the AP about our relationship? There’s no honor in sleeping with another man’s wife unless you told him we were separating or divorcing!
She said he knew we were married but she didn’t tell him anything about our marriage. She said they were at a coworkers house partying (same situation for both times!) drinking and smoking pot and they ended up in one of the bedrooms.

Was there a moment you realized things had gone too far but continued anyway?
She said yes.

Did you have feelings for AP or was it just physical?
She said just physical, no attachment whatsoever.

Do you accept 100% responsibility for cheating?
She said yes, she said she felt I pushed her in that direction by not spending enough time with her but she accepts full responsibility for her actions.

Do you realize how absolutely hateful it was to "punish" me like this?
She said yes, she said back then she relied on me for her happiness and it took her years to figure out that she is the only one responsible for her happiness. Then she said this - the sex wasn’t to punish me, the sex was to numb her pain like the drugs and alcohol but telling me about it was how she punished me, she "wanted to see the pain in my eyes when she told me".

If you were that unhappy why didn’t you divorce me?
She said she never wanted to divorce me, she said she didn’t feel like she was number one in my life but she wanted badly to feel that way.

Did you ever think I’d divorce you for your betrayal?
She said she thought having sex with another man would maybe make me jealous and want her more. I actually laughed and told her it definitely could have the opposite effect.

What would you have done if I had done this to you?
She thought about it and said she would’ve stayed if I’d cheated on her but this is a difficult question based on our points of view as BH and WW.

Did you ever respect me?
She thought about this for about 20 seconds and said she didn’t at that time but she eventually did.

Did you feel guilty?
She said of course and that she’s hurt about what she did to me every single day for 33 years.

How did you justify the cheating to yourself? She said she didn’t justify it she just did it!

Did you ever consider how this would impact me emotionally?
She said she knew it would hurt me but she was in pain and wanted me to be in pain too.

Did you have unprotected sex?
She said yes, she had unprotected sex and being drunk and stoned messed up her judgement. BTW she’s unable to get pregnant, I was wondering about STD’s.

When you said if I ever told our family about your affair you wanted a chance to tell your side of the story. What could you possibly say that would justify adultery?
She said she would want them to understand why she did it, I told her to the vast majority of people you have absolutely no excuse to betray your spouse and that her family would 100% not understand!

It was a very good discussion. Very cordial, no defensiveness from her. She was very open to all my questions and said she would give me completely honest answers even if it was painful to me.
It’s a big relief to be having more questions answered but she’s concerned that bringing it up only causes both of us more pain but after reading the book about helping your spouse heal from an affair she understands that I might need to talk about it more down the road. I told her if I needed to talk I’d let her know, she said she would sit down with me and talk anytime I needed to if that’s what I need to heal.
She also said she knows she will carry the guilt and I will carry the pain for the rest of our lives but hopefully both will diminish as we work on our relationship and treat each other with love and respect.

As I’ve said on here before, she’s definitely not the same person she was 33 years ago.

I've followed the stories of enough WS to know that her answers seem both honest and common. Nothing surprising to me. The more important question is how this conversation has affected you.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 3:49 AM, Thursday, August 13th]

I've followed the stories of enough WS to know that her answers seem both honest and common.

Agree. I don't sense a lot of beating around the bush or BS in her answers. However, the way she answered this:

Do you accept 100% responsibility for cheating?

She said yes, she said she felt I pushed her in that direction by not spending enough time with her but she accepts full responsibility for her actions.

I'm not definitively saying this is what it is, but it could be taken as still at least a little blame-shifty depending on how sincere she is about accepting "full responsibility." Did it feel like she said she accepts it, but with a qualifier? Or does she fully reject that qualifier as "I was stupid to think that way and no longer do. This was all my fault?"

It's a subtle difference, but I think could have a pretty big impact on both of your recoveries. My wife says something similar, but recognizes that it was faulty wayward thinking and no longer feels like I "pushed" her into someone else's arms. It was how she felt at the time. Not now still. It's a pretty crucial difference, imo.

Otherwise it sounds like a pretty good, candid talk. I'm glad she sat down with you willingly and you didn't have to go to any of the nuclear options discussed in your other thread. I think her reading that book was a good thing. It let her inside your world and she seems to understand how important these talks are to you.

[This message edited by Pogre at 1:10 PM, Thursday, August 13th]

Unhinged, yes, she was brutally honest but I told her that’s what I need. I feel much better about things, this was our first discussion without her being defensive. I told her this helped me tremendously, hearing this directly from her helps me to understand some of it better. She said that was a different person back then and that she’s ashamed of how she dealt with things in such a destructive way.

Pogre, we went into a little more detail about me pushing her towards cheating. I asked her how I helped her to cheat and she said, "you didn’t push me towards cheating in fact nothing you did would have caused me to cheat". She said she mentioned me pushing her towards it because early on it was easier to blame me for her cheating but as the years went by she realized it was all her decision, 100% on her.
Sorry, I forgot to add the second part of that answer when I asked her to clarify me pushing her to cheat.
Yes, the book really helped, after reading it she realized how talking about this helps me to better cope and understand. She didn’t hold anything back and was willing to go into detail on anything I asked. I told her that was enough for now but I’m sure we’ll sit down again gave have another good discussion.

I thought of something very profound,
If we’d had this discussion 3 decades ago I’m sure her answers would’ve been different because she was still in that mentality that everything was my fault. I doubt she would have accepted the blame for her cheating back then! We both have the advantage of looking back at two different people vs who we are today.

Good questions.

*****

Peggy Vaughan wrote Help for Therapists (and their clients), a report on surveys she had done. Her conclusions included this: couples who talked about the A more healed more completely. The book is still downloadable from scribd and available from Amazon.

Both you and your W may find it interesting.

Pogre, we went into a little more detail about me pushing her towards cheating. I asked her how I helped her to cheat and she said, "you didn’t push me towards cheating in fact nothing you did would have caused me to cheat". She said she mentioned me pushing her towards it because early on it was easier to blame me for her cheating but as the years went by she realized it was all her decision, 100% on her.

That's a good thing. My wife initially blamed me but my voracious deep dive into it, books, and many conversations with her made her realize that there really isn't anything a person can do to "make" another person decide to have an affair. Shebgets it now, and thatvwas a huge, important distinction for me. I get that's how she felt at that time and I accept that, but it was important to me that she recognized this was faulty thinking and pure blame shifting. I'm glad you got that distinction from her.

Sorry, I forgot to add the second part of that answer when I asked her to clarify me pushing her to cheat.
Yes, the book really helped, after reading it she realized how talking about this helps me to better cope and understand. She didn’t hold anything back and was willing to go into detail on anything I asked. I told her that was enough for now but I’m sure we’ll sit down again gave have another good discussion.

No biggie. You gave some more clarification and thats why I asked instead of accusing. I'm glad she read that book. I think that was a huge turning point for my wife. We listened to the audio version together and I could see the understanding and realization on her face in real time as we listened together. She really switched gears after that, and it sounds like your wife did, too. It's great that she's willing to continue these discussions with you. All good signs, imo.

I thought of something very profound,
If we’d had this discussion 3 decades ago I’m sure her answers would’ve been different because she was still in that mentality that everything was my fault. I doubt she would have accepted the blame for her cheating back then! We both have the advantage of looking back at two different people vs who we are today.

That is profound, and you're almost certainly right. My wife and I are in our mid 50s, so pretty mature and my nature of digging into things and doing deep dives really helped her understand a lot of this stuff early.

She had a tbi as an infant which caused epilepsy. She's wired a little bit differently and has very black and white thinking. When she was faced with the loss of her marriage it hit her very hard. There was no wishy washy stage of "do I or don't I" with her once divorce was put on the table. She fully recommitted to me without a 2nd thought or hesitation. She hasn't faltered a bit in almost a year and a half. Many waywards go through a mourning period and it takes time for the heavy stuff and real commitment to sink in. I was spared that particular nightmare.

I think the distance from it and time have given your wife a similar mindset. She's in it for real and willing to do whatever it takes now. That's exactly what you want to look for. You might have indeed struggled with this 30-some years ago. I'm glad you're finally facing this head on and she's participating. It bodes well for your healing.

Why did she go back to the same man, a co-worker, a second time? How did they act, what did they talk about, did they flirt with each other at work between the 2 physical acts? Was it really just a wham-bam-thank you ma'am on 2 different occasions with a complete vacuum or void between the 2 acts?

It was just physical? He was really just a means to an end? If it was really done to inflict punishment, wouldn't a second, different man be more punitive and effective? Or was there something more between the two of them?

How long did she work with him after the last supposed encounter? Days, months, years? How long did they stay 'friends' after the last encounter?

She's a woman. She could have walked into any bar while you were out training and picked up just about any man she wanted from that bar for NSA sex if she was looking to hurt you (for a second time)... but she didn't. It was a co-worker that she probably liked and had a crush of some sort on, that she interacted with on some sort of reoccurring basis.

In fact, y'all had a 10-year-old son at home that I'm assuming you thought she was looking after while you were training... she had to make plans, two separate times, for your son to be taken care of for the entire night... not just a baby-sitter until midnight. But these 2 acts just happened?

When the internet and social media came along, did she ever search for her OM? Ever friends on Facebook?

Oh the gifts of infidelity.

Take care of yourself 31RS.

[This message edited by NukeZombie at 4:40 PM, Thursday, August 13th]

Thanks sisoon, I’ll see about getting that book.

Pogre, I wished I’d done like you and listened to the audio version with my wife so I could see her reactions, that was an excellent idea!
I agree, my wife’s more willing than she ever was to help me get through this and the book was a big start for her, now she understands my side of it better!

NukeZombie, she went back to the same coworker because someone she worked with had parties at her house and a lot of her coworkers went to the parties.

Her AP was single and went to all the parties, my wife went to a few parties where everyone there got drunk and stoned. My wife said her AP said nice things to her and she feeling lonely and being drunk and stoned responded, she said next thing she knew they were in one of the bedrooms.

I asked her why twice with him she said they both ended up at another party not long after the first and it happened again but she doesn’t know why other than being under the influence, lonely and wanting to numb her pain.

Yes, complete vacuum between the two acts, they didn’t work together, he was in an office and she worked away from the office. She didn’t need to have sex with another man to inflict more punishment and she wasn’t going to a bar to pick a stranger up.

After her second time with him she told me what she did to punish me and that she wasn’t involved with him anymore and didn’t see him at work. She said she had no attraction or affection for him and she wasn’t going to any more parties.

I went to visit him after she told me about her and him. I drove down to confront him at his work while my wife was off.

I didn’t know what he looked like but I knew his name and job title. I found his office and knocked on the open door. He looked up from his desk and asked how he could help me. I asked his name to be sure I had the right guy.

I told him who I was and he was immediately afraid because I’m sure I looked crazy, I could’ve had a gun (I didn’t) and I was a lot bigger than him. I told him not to move or call anyone or I’d hurt him, he knew I was serious.

I told him if he ever touched my wife again that I would come back and cut off his nose, ears, all his fingers and then remove the part he put in my wife with a razor blade.

I left quickly because the urge to beat him senseless was coming out fast but that would’ve gotten me in trouble with the Army and could’ve had me removed from training.

He was a little measly looking guy, I couldn’t figure out why my wife had anything to do with him but I know it’s not always logical. I was looking for Brad Pitt, I guess affair down is true but It helped that he didn’t look like Brad Pitt.

It might have been wrong to do this but I wanted him to have no doubt in his mind about the possible consequences of having sex with another man’s wife! He definitely got the point. I don’t know if they’re would’ve been a 3rd time since she ended it before I talked to him but I strongly suspect he would’ve not done anything with my wife after I talked to him.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not a tough guy or a violent person by any means but I’m sure I was borderline psychotic at that time and could’ve said or done just about anything after my world came crashing down on me!

Our son was friends with another students kids so he spent the night there a lot. Also, my wife would go out with her friends leave me and my son alone sometimes when I was on a day schedule. So she didn’t need to prior coordinate to cheat, she could’ve done it one of the nights I was with my son.

She’s never searched for him on social media, I have access to her social media accounts and she’s never done anything inappropriate.

Thanks NukeZombie

[This message edited by 31RS at 1:06 AM, Friday, August 14th]